James Vu Anh Pham grew up with an expectation to be seen, safe and accepted. His parents, refugees from the Vietnam War, carried that weight into their first-generation son's life in Australia—the obvious path was medicine, status, invisible safety. But Vu Anh Pham found his voice in the one place that could quieten his thoughts: the body. Dance gave shape to emotional vulnerability and eventually, it became the lens through which he would interrogate identity and what it means to trust oneself enough to be seen.
That trust led him from the contemporary dance world into two transformative collaborations that would redefine his practice: first, Madonna's Celebration Tour, where he encountered a community of multi-hyphenate artists of color who mirrored something he'd been searching for; then, FKA twigs, who opened a space where labor dissolved into genuine intimacy and shared artistic purpose.
In this conversation, Vu Anh Pham speaks about the griefs and rebirths that shaped his creative transition, the moment he realized he was being asked to work with an artist he'd long admired, and what it means to build something with people who see you personally, spiritually and artistically.
Growing up, dance wasn’t the obvious path in your family. Was there a moment when it suddenly clicked for you, and you knew this was what you wanted to do?
I don’t specifically remember a moment, but I do remember the pressure of feeling like I needed to excel and succeed at something. Both my parents are refugees from the Vietnam war and me growing up as first generation born in Australia, there was an unspoken expectation to be ‘extraordinary’ in order to be successful, seen, safe and accepted in society. The obvious choice was to be a doctor or something similar.. but I accidentally fell into dance and music because of the artistic and expressive nature of it. I was a really sensitive child and I needed an outlet for my emotional vulnerability since schooling and the pursuit of good grades felt so mechanical and void of emotion. I’ve always been easily distracted and found it difficult to focus, but dance and music were the only thing that could quieten my thoughts. I decided to choose dance because physically it’s an advantage to start young. My parents were very anxious about it but they could see how much joy it brought to me so they supported me. I made sure I worked tirelessly to not let them or myself down. I successfully auditioned for a dance company before I completed my tertiary training which catapulted the beginning of my career, that was the moment it all clicked for me I guess.
James Vu Anh Pham. Photo: Roy Vanrusselt (@sinnerpropaganda)
You’ve spoken before about the physical prep and injury prevention you do before a long contract. Do you have a similar mental routine before heading into a big tour?
To be honest I prioritize my physical prep as I trust that if I feel my body is prepared and conditioned, so will my mentality. I feel more confident and ready mentally if I’ve put in the time to strengthen my body as that requires discipline and almost an honouring of the self and what’s to come. It’s always such an undertaking and I do find myself feeling anxious about the oncoming onslaught of tasks and things to do before the shows even begin, but luck favours the prepared!
What did it feel like when you realized you were going to work with Madonna – an artist whose name you’d known long before this project?
It felt ridiculous actually! I almost didn’t know how to feel, I knew my life was about to change and it certainly did. There was absolute disbelief and I also felt anxious that I wasn’t up to the challenge, but deep down I also knew that it was exactly what I needed and deserved. It was a pivotal point in my development as a person and as an artist, to believe in myself and to advocate for myself. If I didn’t believe in my worth, who else would? It was almost numb for a few days and my chest felt tingly, like a fully charged battery in my ribcage haha.
The Celebration Tour was enormous. How did it feel when it came to an end, and what was the hardest part of that experience for you?
It was quite devastating when it ended. I’d spent 14 months every day with the same close group of people. We did everything together, we saw the best and worst of each other and we had limited access to the world outside of the tour. A tour of that size is such an intense incubator, and we had so much access to fun sparkly things like parties and shopping and we were able to just live in a somewhat fantastical land together! The idea of not seeing those people every day again, and having to almost re-assimilate back into normal society was incredibly jarring. Before the tour commenced, I’d said to myself that I wanted the tour to swallow me up, churn me around, and spit me out the other end completely changed, grown, developed and new. In order for that to happen I needed to mourn what I knew of myself before that, it was an incredibly meaningful and painful experience, in the best way.
You’ve done huge arena shows and demanding tours, but how does working with FKA twigs feel different to you on an emotional level?
This era feels deeply different with Twigs, because it really doesn’t feel like work. It feels like I’m constantly allowed to flourish as I am, personally, spiritually and artistically. Twigs has worked hard to create an immersive space that is incredibly fertile for growth, vulnerability, intimacy and connection. We all live together, literally. We see the best and worst of each other, and celebrate each other, challenge each other to be better and it’s formed a deep bond within this chosen family. Artistically Twigs has asked more of me than what I thought I was capable of. She trusts that I’ll do the best work that I can, and in turn I surprise myself by pushing myself more. I feel accepted for who I am as a person and as an artist, whilst having the comfort of sibling love all around me by the team. I was so inspired by Twigs’ art since the beginning, and now to feel that she also respects my own craft and wants to actively help develop and expand it.. I feel very seen. I’ve committed my life to being an artist, and so has Twigs, Jordan and all the dancers.. and for them all to support and actively contribute to the expansion and blossoming of my art is one of the most deeply emotional and nuanced experiences I could ever have. I could only hope I can also do the same for them and it gives me a huge reason to wake up every day and be present and enjoy.
You said the real connection with FKA twigs came when it was just the two of you in the studio for the On campaign. Is there a moment from that process that made it clear you were completely on the same wavelength?
Wow yes, it was the first time Twigs has asked me to choreograph something on her. I had total imposter syndrome but at the same time I felt deeply ready and excited for the challenge. I wanted to create something unique, technical, an amalgamation of all the skills I’ve harnessed whilst making sure it would showcase her multi-faceted talent as a dancer. I was awestruck at how quick she absorbed the information and her tenacity and relentlessness to learning the choreography. I had a very meaningful realisation about how much she had subconsciously influenced and educated my physicality from when I first started developing as a dancer. I remember watching all her music videos and being so moved. When I was observing her dancing my movement, I realised in a way I was deeply prepared as I was reflecting her prowess back to her from how much she had unknowingly taught me.
The Body Is Art, Part II, On Spring/Summer 25 Training Collection. Image © On
In FKA twigs’ show, you played both piano and clarinet and now even performing on the pole. How did that idea come about?
Funny story. Years ago during rehearsal break, I was just playing some old songs from my childhood on the piano. I guess she clocked that it was a skill I had and then a few months later during the creation for the EUSEXUA tour (about two weeks before opening night) she just said “you’ll play cellophane for the end of the show on piano”. I was shocked, and even said I’m not sure if I could do that! It’s such an iconic song I don’t think I could do it justice. I quickly looked up the chords and stored it in my head anyway. After a few days she casually just said let’s do Cellophane quickly, and I played it for her while she sang. After she just said “see? I knew you could do it.” then walked away haha!
As for the clarinet, it was sort of an inside joke with the dancers that I played it in the high school orchestra when I was a teenager. So as soon as Twigs caught wind of that, she just said “ok, so you’ll play clarinet for Home With You”. I laughed and just accepted my fate and never looked back ha!
For the pole, I had been learning for a few months as a side quest hobby. I’d join Twigs during her training sessions with some of the dancers as a way to also bond and learn new skills from each other. I’m still very new in it, but one show I was encouraged by Maya (the pole specialist performer in the Body High tour) to just get on it onstage during Striptease. And here we are!
How did you move from a more concert-based contemporary dance background into the commercial side of the industry, and how did that shift change your physicality and your choices as a choreographer?
The switch came at a very critical moment in my career. I had been working professionally as a contemporary dancer for 11 years, and I’d lost the passion for it. I felt like being in institutions as a dancer I wasn’t able to use my skillset to it’s fullest, and I was at the mercy of what the companies were asking me to do and many of the projects weren’t as interesting for me, nor were they financially viable. Working as a full time dancer is incredibly demanding on the body and the mind, and if I wasn’t feeling stimulated and inspired to the fullest to make art that I believe in, what was the point?
I had decided that I needed to prepare to leave dance and pursue other things, but then Damien Jalet, a friend and choreographer I had worked with a long time ago reached out and asked if I’d be interested in auditioning for Madonna’s CELEBRATION tour. From there, I was surrounded by ridiculously talented individuals who were so multi-faceted and also of colour. I saw myself in them, reflected back to me, and was inspired to step up to them and myself. I began the pursuit of re-training myself, learning from my colleagues new styles of dance that were connected to passion, groove, and a sharp fire, and a new way of performing and being seen within myself and by others. I could see that in the commercial world, sex appeal was a huge part of the job, so I dug deeper into learning how to love myself and feel beautiful in a new way. I had to grieve the loss of who I thought I was as an artist. It was gruelling, confronting and significant. I knew that if I was to perform onstage with Madonna, I needed to be an incredible sharpened tool. So I committed.
After the tour ended it was an organic journey to meeting Twigs, which by then I’d honed my skillset and was ready to make choreography that was a manifestation of everything I had learnt and developed over the tour with Madonna and everything prior as a contemporary dancer.
James Vu Anh Pham Portrait
What advice would you give to young dancers who are just starting out in the industry today?
This is a hard one. Not one piece of advice or formula fits all. But for me I MUST enjoy what I am doing. I must find pleasure in the act of what I am doing, and as a result I am soft and humble to learn and absorb new information. I’m almost accidentally learning faster when I’m enjoying it.
I’m not a particularly ambitious person, I just have a lot to express. I don’t necessarily have many specific things to say, I trust that everything before me, my ancestry, my body, my experiences will show through my movement within that slither of time onstage. I’m a queer person of colour who was born from two Vietnamese refugees, being seen onstage is already a statement. I had to learn to trust that. So I think my advice would be to trust yourself, and all that you have, including what has come before you. Trust the process, truly. Trust that things will align when you are aligned with yourself. Work hard, work smart, and that includes rest. Find pleasure in the effort and pursuit. The act of committing to craft and finding purpose and connection in it can be an incredibly fertile ground for a colourful life.
Looking at your path as a whole, what has shaped you most as an artist: the stage, touring, or teaching?
Honestly, it’s the people. You really learn from the people who you are surrounded by. The industry is full of unique, talented aliens! I’m drawn to kind yet fierce individuals who are different and have learnt to find strength in their differences. It’s a constant reminder to hone the gifts you have whilst learning from others. You are constantly being shaped, there are many deaths and rebirths. Touring has allowed me to be deeply embedded in microcosms with it’s own ethos, sense of family and each one teaches me something meaningful about myself. I’ve learnt that accepting others for their differences invites many opportunities to become a better person and therefore contributing to society in a positive way. Even if it means stirring the pot and making art together that disturbs the norm.
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On the cover: James Vu Anh Pham. Photo: YEBO (@yebophotography)
